Seen any good movies lately?
Bull: Yes. Closer. I was into it and simultaneously feeling manipulated, which I now understand was probably the whole point. And I was noticing the themes - do we really know each other, and how deeply can we really know each other - and then that twist hits; that one piece of information reveals a whole new insight into the puzzle in the last five seconds. Now that's jazz! I had gone out the night before to hear some amazing jazz, and I had been noticing how the musicians were completing each other's musical sentences, they were all just really entrained. That was how some of the ensemble acting was in Closer - very subtle listening, and one simple "note" changes the whole piece - subtle and powerful.
Rollins: Yes, I thought Closer was excellent. And Sideways is almost perfect – not quite, because there’s a problem in the character and relationship development between the two guys (would these two almost total opposites actually stay close friends and take this kind of trip together at this point in their lives?) which could have been easily fixed with one scene or piece of information to address this – but still, almost perfect. Funny, smart, grown-up, realistic, low-tech and high-quality.
How about any theater that really blew you away?
Bull: Well to be blown away — okay — this wouldn't be lately though since for the last year I was either in rehearsals for 29 Questions, or listening to (or singing) jazz. I heard a LOT of really fine jazz including an experimental improvisational group called Conference Call at the Goethe House — total alchemy! The last theatrical piece I walked away from feeling blown away was Robert LePage's Mnemonic a few years ago. And also the Atlantic Theater Company's production of Night Heron last year. Two very opposite extremes in style, but each equally daring. LePage is "experimental" and facilitates company-created inter-arts works that integrate multi-media, telling a story with so many different textures of media. For Night Heron, the Atlantic project, the dramatic structure was more traditional, a "well made" play, with some absolutely extraordinary ensemble acting — emotionally daring, and again, a surprise in that last moment, suddenly very naked. Both works told stories in new ways that made me feel more alert to life, the plays were truly alive.
Rollins: I’m afraid not. Not in the past year or two. But I haven’t been getting out much lately! The most recent excellent theater I’ve seen was Stephen Sondheim’s Assassins on Broadway last summer. But that’s a revival, so I don’t know if it counts as current theater that blew me away.
Okay, now on to business. How did the two of you hook up for The 29 Questions Project?
Rollins: Through Leslie Burby, who directed my piece in the evening.
Bull: The director Leslie Kincaid Burby introduced us; Leslie and Hillary were both friends of Laura Rockefeller who died in the South Tower, and for whom Hillary writes 29 Questions.
What was the genesis of this project? Whose idea was it?
Bull: Hillary wrote 29 Questions, and Leslie showed me the script; then I produced it in a reading for Bull Family Orchestra, and Leslie directed. After that, Leslie and I were searching for "companion" works, and during that search I realized what we needed were companion pieces that expanded on and contextualized 29 Questions, rather than just another night of "one acts". So, being a writer, I responded to 29 Questions and wrote some "bookends" as I called them, and Leslie said — that's good, and I was like, yeah, that could really work, and so we asked Hillary how she would feel about Bull Family Orchestra doing a 29 Questions project. I told her I really wanted the pieces to flow together, so that the night was one whole very intertwined experience. She was into that, and gave us permission to develop the night that way. The plays I wrote were short, and in the end, really not "bookends" because they do hold their own, but they were all meant to be heard in and around the 29 Questions piece. When she came to the workshop she was very excited by the Project, and it was clear that we were on the same page, our aesthetics, our sense of humor, and how we see the circumstances.
Rollins: In her interview Katie has explained the genesis of the whole project, so I’ll just add the genesis of my piece. One week after 9/11 I attended a small seminar sponsored by PEN West about how to respond as a writer during large-scale tragedies (war, tsunamis, terrorism, etc.) I ran into a friend and fellow playwright there who was shocked to learn that I’d lost my dear friend Laura in the towers. She asked if I’d written anything about it, as her theater company was planning an evening of short readings about the event — not so much plays, but letters, poems, essays, articles, rants, that kind of thing.. I hadn’t written anything, hadn’t even thought to try, as I was in so much pain and overwhelmed at the time. But I wanted to contribute something to the evening if I could. At first the task seemed daunting — what could I possibly say about the politics and world-wide impact of 9/11 that wasn’t already being said by people with far greater expertise? And regarding my personal loss, how could I possibly express it in a few paragraphs — the grief and confusion and numbness and all the rest of it? Then, for some reason, I thought of an old internet questionnaire that Laura had sent to me several months earlier. I looked it up in my files and was chilled to discover how current context altered the weight and meaning of both the questions and answers. I realized I’d stumbled upon a form for a short play, or ‘theatrical dialogue’ that could more elegantly express what I needed to say than any original essay or ‘think-piece’ might.. In the end, my friend’s theater company didn’t include my piece in their evening — they didn’t want anything that required actors or rehearsal and were only presenting writers reading their own short prose — but I went on to develop 29 Questions through The Ensemble Studio Theatre’s Winterfest and other reading opportunities until it eventually made its way into Leslie and Katie’s hands and prompted the creation of Katie’s four companion pieces which altogether comprise The 29 Questions Project.
9/11 is a delicate subject. Did either of you make any decision at the outset about how you did and/or did not want to approach it?
Rollins: With sentiment but not sentimentality. With a personal response rather than one that was political or polemical.
Bull: We both did NOT want to sentimentalize, and we talked about that. We wanted to be truthful, and we knew we could only really do that by writing our own experiences. We didn't want to be grandiose in some attempt to tie it up with an intellectual ribbon, and present The Answer. In fact, it is more about the unknowns within intimacy, between strangers, and inside of friendship, and how those themes ripple out into larger circumstances. All our writing is directly from our own experiences, so there is a documentary edge that I find compelling; there are some poetic licenses taken, but not many. We were reverent to our memories, and perhaps the artistry is really in the editing. My experience was that so much of this felt meant to be with Hillary, and our collaboration fell into place.
Can you tell us anything about the 29 questions of the title without giving away anything?
Bull: Speaking as the Artistic Director and writer of the plays that wrap around The 29 Questions Project as a whole, I took inspiration from what Gertrude Stein said on her death bed —when asked what is the Answer? She said, "Ah, but what is the question?" In some ways right now, the answer is in the question. We have to keep asking questions, don't we?!
Rollins: No. (!) Other than what I’ve already told you, which is that the questions were all from a common internet game/questionnaire.
What did you learn — about yourselves, about 9/11, or in general — from doing this piece?
Rollins: I think the most compelling thing I personally learned was that theater really could be a healing experience. As artists, we pay a lot of lip service to this idea, but deep down I suspected this was more often a lofty ideal — a way of justifying what we do and getting funding for it — than a reality. In writing this piece and seeing it performed by such sensitive actors and directors, I actually found more peace from my loss and grief than I could have expected. I can’t say whether or not the audience reaped that benefit, but if there’s a chance anyone did, then “yay art”!
Bull: Part of it was due to our location, being at Yaffa's and the history of that restaurant venue on 9/11 as an EMS station. That really brought a level of walking on sacred ground into the piece that we realized but could have never viscerally anticipated. I learned about going into the streets with theater, and looking into the eyes of the audience for whom you are making the theater (since we broke the fourth wall in several places, and we were in such close proximity) so that, really, the sense (that a jazz musician always has) is that we are really ALL making the play. This speaks to the truly transformative nature of theater; the way that theater truly can be healing through the visceral ritual of the coming together. This piece was not just about something "I" wanted to say, it was a response to something essential and necessary within a community - a need for a space to grieve, and also, a space to think and dialogue forth. That felt so vital, and I could never go back into a black box in the same way again. About 9/11 — I don't feel that the play is just about 9/11; what happened on 9/11 started before 9/11. It's part of a larger picture, and also, a very particular way we live individually, within our immediate worlds. And it is not over yet. No, it is not over yet.
The play was performed site-specifically. Tell us about the site, and why it was chosen.
Bull: Oh, okay, here's the Yaffa's question. Well, a few things happened to get us there. We wanted to get down near Ground Zero. We felt like we could offer something that was needed for that community specifically, Tribeca. I actually grew up there in my teens and twenties, so I feel like Tribeca is home. Hillary had this store front idea, and she encouraged us to find a cafe. We wanted to find someplace where we could mangia — as in eat — there needed to be food — we needed to break bread with the audience. I had a dream and saw a beautiful place with Middle Eastern motifs; and just a few days later, I walked into Yaffa's, and there it was, the desert sand walls, the beautiful beaded mosaics, like in my dream. Again, this felt meant to be. And Yaffa herself, she just instantly welcomed us. She was moving on an instinctual level, and the whole thing was really about trust. She became part of the project. So did Yo Yo, the room manager who is a sculptor from Germany, he became part of the project — who could ever forget Yo Yo!
What was the audience reaction to the play like?
Bull: This was an amazing aspect of the Project, because we really did experience their reaction very up close. Like, very. We were literally sitting with them. Very focused, very emotional at times, vulnerable, and different kinds of laughter — some loud, some restrained. It felt to me like a jazz club, where the audience listens and in their responses they actually propel the music in an energetic direction. When I went to see The Goat on Broadway I remember that some of the audience was laughing behind me while others were crying in front of me — that was the experience here — similar — a wide range of different simultaneous experiences. And always afterwards, during the feast with the world food tastings and live music, there was inter-mingling, and discussion, and people telling their stories, making associations, or asking questions, and dialogue. It really was what we envisioned.
Rollins: I was only able to attend a few performances, as I live in Los Angeles., so I didn’t get to assess the audience reaction that often. From what I could tell, they seemed to be tremendously attentive, there was a kind of intense listening in the room. More than that, I can’t say. But we were often sold out with very little publicity, so I think there must have been positive word of mouth…
Both of you seem to have a wide range of interests and skills — Katie, you are a jazz singer, a vocal production teacher, and the Artistic Director of a theater company; Hillary, you write for both television and theater, and have contributed to two anthologies of essays. Who inspires each of you, creatively speaking?
Bull: Oh no, this is a big question, because there are so many inspirations. The music, the voice work, and the theater projects are so inter-connected for me. I come from a background in post-modern dance improvisation, my dad and step mom were dancers, they have since passed away — but their work in structured choreographic improvisation profoundly influenced my aesthetic and my belief in process over product. Musically — John Coltrane. Charlie Parker. Lee Konitz. Art Pepper. Theolonius Monk. Betty Carter. My two jazz singing mentors Jay Clayton and Sheila Jordan. My regular bandmates, Michael Jefry Stevens, and Joe Fonda, and the jazz musicians I just recorded with, Matt Wilson, Frank Kimbrough and Martin Wind. My vocal production mentor for the speaking voice work with actors, Chuck Jones, and a vocal production coach named Patsy Rodenberg. Playwrights Chekhov, Shakespeare, O'Neill. Charles Mee. Suzan-Lori Parks. Anna Deveare Smith. Eric Bogosian. Spalding Gray. Inter-Arts director composer Meredith Monk. Theater directors Julie Taymor. Ingmar Bergman. Robert LePage.....umm umm...and.... and....
Rollins: I can’t think of any particular individual, but I would say I’m inspired by quality work of every genre. I don’t like just one kind of theater or music or art. I mean, I know a lot of people who only listen to jazz or only read mysteries or categorically hate television. This has never appealed to me. I’ve always liked classical theater as well as musical comedies, “fine literature” as well as pop TV, folk songs as well as symphonies – as long as they are good. Excellence is inspiring.
How did you each get involved in show business?
Rollins: Oy vey, that’s a long story! My parents were both in it — my mother was a singer and my father was a personal manager and producer. I grew up in New York going to comedy clubs and nightclubs and theater. One sister studied dance at the School of American Ballet and danced in the New York City Ballet’s Nutcracker every year, my other sister was in summer stock as a child actor. I went to Music and Art high school as a musician (classical clarinet) and an arts summer camp where I majored in acting and minored in writing. I also studied voice and dance and performed in musical reviews, operas and musical theater. I was also a founding member of a cabaret vocal trio (Hilly, Lili, & Lulu) that performed in venues from off-off Broadway theaters to Atlantic City casinos. I moved into writing (which really was what I had always wanted to do the most) in my late twenties when a friend who knew me as a performer but suspected I really wanted to write) invited me to try writing a sketch for a live comedy review. It was successful, and after that she asked me to collaborate with her on a television writing assignment she had for Nickelodeon. These two experiences were the beginning of my involvement in this part of my career — the professional writing — but I guess you could say I’ve always been in show business!
Bull: I guess I'm probably not really in show business considering what one might associate with that phrase "show business" — but I am definitely involved in the Off-Off-Off Broadway scene, and what may be considered the Fringe in the inter-arts realm. I was born into a family of performing artists, my biological mother is an opera singer and painter, and my dad and stepmom were dancers who ran a performance loft in Tribeca for over 20 years, they both passed away from cancer in the late 1990s, two souls that left together. I think I've just always been involved in the world of the arts, the involvement was a matter of upbringing, and probably a DNA given, no real choice involved in the involvement.
Where are you from originally? And how has your background influenced your artistic endeavors, if at all?
Rollins: New York City. Manhattan. Upper West Side. Born and raised. Public schools, all the way from kindergarten through college (State University of New York at Purchase). The amazing thing is that Katie and Leslie went there, too, although we didn’t know each other from school (I’m a little older than those gals!) How has my background influenced me? Just read the above — arts and entertainment are all I’ve ever known! I used to say that I wanted to be a doctor but my parents made me go into show business. It’s not far from the truth — I actually did want to be a doctor, but I couldn’t pass math in high school. So here I am, singing, dancing and writing. Oh well.
Bull: I was born in Manhattan and raised in the West Village until I was seven, then my dad and I moved to a small town in Upstate New York called Brockport, where we lived until I was 14 — then we moved back to Tribeca, when Tribeca was just empty raw lofts and no place to do laundry! I think exposure to big grand culture, and exposure to small home town rural life plays a powerful role, but I'm not sure how exactly. Maybe, I guess maybe, in my plays and also in my music I am interested in the human relationships at the core of any event or issue, the particular in the center of the grand scheme. The first play I wrote that got accepted into a festival was a play called Small Town New York City, and it was about this young woman who moves to Astoria, Queens from upstate New York and her encounters with the new and diverse culture, and the small gardens, and the loose rabbits (from the butcher shops!).
What's up next for you?
Bull: Actually, I am in the process of releasing my second jazz CD, Love Spook — set for a March release on Corn Hill Indie, and doing some gigs for that. As a result of The 29 Questions Project I have been in touch with a visual artist from Tribeca, Renate Aller, who is interested in collaborating to move the project to a multi-media installation phase, and we have met to brainstorm sketches for a large gallery space where we could integrate visual art more centrally into the piece. These sketches are to be used for a fundraising package. Humm...there's that business part of the show. Hillary is doing some work to get the piece seen at cultural centers and museums. Pretty soon I will reconnect with some of the core members of Bull Family Orchestra to do a reading of a project that I wrote which the company was developing when we decided to produce 29 Questions; that project is She Has Such A Vivid Imagination, it's a play that takes place in the instant of a flashback during a near death accident. Yes, it's written from life — non-linear puzzle like, and definitely inter-arts — a big undertaking. I'm lucky to have such an amazing group of actors to work with — they really do make it all worth the hang, as we say in jazz.
Rollins: I’m collaborating on an original musical, collaborating with a composer.